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Post by Cole Helzlsouer on Nov 6, 2017 22:49:32 GMT
In this matter both stances in this situation have valid reasons, but the Spanish government has not done anything to make Catalonia truly need independence and to break away from Spain.
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Post by Cole Helzlsouer on Nov 6, 2017 23:02:10 GMT
In this matter both stances in this situation have valid reasons, but the Spanish government has not done anything to make Catalonia truly need independence and to break away from Spain. This is a reply to Ryan Hinchberger |
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Post by Cole Helzlsouer on Nov 6, 2017 23:05:29 GMT
The part of Spain called Catalonia is pushing for independence due to the cultural differences and because economically they are putting in more than their getting back. Due to strong support for separation from citizens in the beginning of October Catalonia held a referendum to decide whether or not the people wanted independence from Spain in which according to fox news 90 percent of voters voted for independence. On the surface this seems to be a logical set of events where a small part of a larger country has discontent for the ruling county that has a separate culture, and would prefer to be its own separate entity but once you realize that only half of the citizens eligible to vote actually did the referendum no longer seems to hold much weight. Even ignoring how many people voted for the referendum or how much support there is for a split the Spanish government has declared the attempt at independence to be illegal and seized control of the Catalonian government. The Spanish government would not let Catalonia leave even if it wasn’t illegal, for Catalonia’s absence would greatly affect Spain’s economy which according to the telegraph is 20 percent of Spain’s output. If Catalonia gained its independence they wouldn’t have much support and would only serve to destabilize the area and inspire others to destabilize as well. Outside governments have already stated they support Spain’s right to keep control of its territory’s and that agreements between the countries would still be only for Spain. In the end all Catalonia managed to do was create turmoil divides and show how the rest of the world would be against them. If Catalonia managed to gain independence would any good come from it or would it have a negative for everyone? At this stage do you think that Catalonia even has a chance of becoming independent? Catalonia will have a very small chance of actually succeeding in doing this mainly because it also would set an example for other European regions to do this as well |
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Post by Antal on Nov 6, 2017 23:13:05 GMT
@hinchberger
I am on the side of Spain because if they were to leave it would have a large effect economically. It says that they would loose 20% of its economic output and Catalonia still owes them 52.5 billion euros.
@gilbert
War would more than likely break out if Fox News says that over 900 people were treated for injuries when voting turned violent when Catalan citizens and Spanish police clashed earlier that month. This was only voting so if it was acted on the violence would be much greater eventually leading to civil war.
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Post by mulneix on Nov 6, 2017 23:25:56 GMT
@ Hinchberger
I would be on the side of the Spanish government, there is not enough reason for Catalonia to split from the Spanish government. If every place that had a good economy, a different culture, and a slight desire to split from the main government not only would their be a hand full of states that would leave but many other places around the world would split from their government witch would create divisions and conflicts.
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Post by Mulneix on Nov 6, 2017 23:28:35 GMT
@cole Helzlsouer
For the future Spain will probably be keeping a close eye on Catalonia and making sure that it can not break away.
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Post by Pierce M on Nov 6, 2017 23:53:00 GMT
@michael James Dudich XVI
I think that the vote was not a true representation of the population, but it was an open pole and the people were supposed to vote. so it seemed like they at least had the choice to vote. And as far as Rajoy is concerned I think if he loses Catalonia then he will have a whole storm of problems.
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Post by Pierce M on Nov 7, 2017 0:00:10 GMT
@gilbert
I think that their movement will cause other movements similar to it throughout Europe. As far as a war is concerned I believe that both sides want to avoid war as much as possible and because of that war will simply not develop.
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Post by Davis on Nov 7, 2017 0:03:47 GMT
@hinchberger I am on the side of Spain not letting Catalonia succeed. If they were to succeed this would hurt Spain drastically since they account for 19% of the GDP and are a major part of where Spain gets it money. If they succeed it could also send a message to other regions and other countries that succession is possible and a good idea which could lead to more conflict that doesn’t need to happen.
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Post by Davis on Nov 7, 2017 0:07:56 GMT
@gilbert If Catalonia were to leave Spain it would send the message to other regions that they can do the same leading to more conflict than there Is now. I doubt it would lead to war but it could just by how violent the Spanish government has gotten so far.
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Michael James Dudich XVI
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Post by Michael James Dudich XVI on Nov 7, 2017 0:43:34 GMT
@ryan Hinchberger
Along with Ryan Davis and some others and you, I agree with Catalonia not leaving Spain. If they did, not only would it cripple Spain's economy even more but it would also encourage other regions in Spain to leave. Along with other regions in Europe,This would lead to the slow down fall of Europe nations as National movements take down globalism.
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Post by Gilbert on Nov 7, 2017 1:00:52 GMT
@gray
It does not make sense for Catalonia to be an independent country if their government would not even be stable, so I agree with you. Also, if Catalonia owes that much debt to Spain, then I can see why Spain is so angry. War is likely to break out over debt if the Catalans do not pay it, and if war does break out then more debt would be the result..
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Post by gilbert on Nov 7, 2017 1:13:43 GMT
@rudish
In class today we talked about how smaller regions wanted to separate from their country and become independent, but they did not succeed. If Catalonia were to succeed, then this could create a voice for the smaller regions that want to be independent. This could create more turmoil between smaller regions and their country.
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Michael James Dudich XVI
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Post by Michael James Dudich XVI on Nov 7, 2017 1:15:04 GMT
@gilbert
I dont think War will happen simply because that is what Spain is trying to avoid. If they didn't care they would have ended this a while ago.
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Post by Antal on Nov 7, 2017 1:39:13 GMT
I forgot to add my questions to my post yesterday...So here they are: Do you think that this situation in Spain will have an affect on the U.S.? If so, how? By looking at the Catalonia situation in Spain, there are many connections to be made to the material we covered in Unit One of this class. A lot of what has happened with the Catalonia independence movement goes against the government principles we learned about in Unit One. For example, the principle of popular sovereignty says that people must give their consent to be governed, and they also have the power to withdraw their consent because sovereignty rests with the people. Spain is making Catalonia’s decision to withdraw from being governed very difficult because “in September 2017, the majority approved the holding of a binding referendum on independence for Catalonia, but Spain’s constitutional court suspended the process” (The Telegraph News). Spain might claim their reason for trying to stop Catalonia from becoming independent is because the movement would go against Spain’s “common good.” The Telegraph News article says that Catalonia’s succession would “cost Spain almost 20% of its economic output.” According to the article, Spain is also upset that Catalonia still owes the country 52.5 billion euros in debt. Due to Catalonia’s impressive economic status, the region would definitely be able to make it as an independent nation. In fact, according to The Telegraph News article, “its GDP per capita would be $35,000, which would make it wealthier than South Korea, Israel, or Italy.” The negative effect Catalonia would have on Spain if they became an independent nation would be similar to if California decided to secede from the United States. If Catalonia’s independence is recognized, it could cause even more of an uproar throughout Spain. Already, “about 900 people were treated for injuries after voting turned violent when Catalan citizens and Spanish police clashed earlier this month” (Fox News). Looking at the bigger picture, Pamela Radcliff says it best when she says that Catalonia’s push for independence “raises questions of the future of democracy and democratic rule” (Fox News). |
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