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Post by ricky on Oct 17, 2017 2:05:50 GMT
jonah Thank you for your disclaimer about not living in Spain it cleared things up for me lol. But to get back on topic, if here is a "Silent Majority" that wants to stay with Spain, why are they not out there voting and fighting for what they want. If the majority of Catalans want to stay with Spain, that takes an ENORMOUS amount of pressure off of Spain and they would get what they want because Spain is supporting Catalonia staying part of Spain.
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Post by ricky on Oct 17, 2017 2:09:36 GMT
brooke, you made some very good points about the police violence and I totally agree with you there. But there is no way Catalonia will be "thriving" based off of tourism. If Catalonia breaks away from Spain, it may actually drive tourists away from the new country that did not support them gaining independence.
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Post by Maya French on Oct 17, 2017 2:14:33 GMT
@meghanmiller Reacting to the question you posed about article 155, I think that at the rate things are going that there will be an attempt made by the Spanish government to act on the article. Though, after the violence shown by the riot police simply in the name of "stopping an illegal vote" it is easy to assume that this article 155 will be used as an excuse for another heinous, unnecessary action against the Catalan people. Here is article 155 translated to English, courtesy of:ww.thespainreport.com/articles/1129-170916162558-what-is-article-155-of-the-spanish-constitution-this-is-how-madrid-would-suspend-home-rule-in-catalonia
"1. If an autonomous community [Spanish region] were not to fulfil the duties imposed upon it under the Constitution or other laws, or were to act in a manner that gravely attacked the general interest of Spain, the government, having first notified the First Minister of the autonomous community and, in if no reply were received, with an absolute majority in the Senate, may adopt the measures necessary to oblige that [region] to forcibly comply with said duties or to protect the aforementioned general interest."
"2. To execute the measures foreseen in the previous section, the government may give instructions to all of the authorities in the autonomous communities."
In reading this I found it to be very vague in how Spain may take actions to stop the autonomous community. It provides enough grey area for Spain to label almost any action to be under article 155, all they need is a simple play on words. If they were to attempt to take over the Catalonian police force, it is likely some will rebel and others will comply and, in turn, be the cause of a greater split amongst the people.
How do you think article 155 will be applied by the Spanish government?
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Post by Maddy Crighton on Oct 17, 2017 2:20:05 GMT
brooke I like how you said that Spain should be worried about losing one of their main currency supplying regions. I did not view it as that way, which is maybe why they took a violent approach in order to keep them from succeeding. Good Job Girl!
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Post by Maya French on Oct 17, 2017 2:32:53 GMT
@wyattheyl Referring to the question you posed, the EU would be making a bad decision if they chose to take a side and be a support in this matter. The "revolution", if you will, is becoming an increasingly unstable situation with fewer options for civil communication. If the EU were to side with Spain then they would be stuck in the role of financially supporting the Spanish economy after their loss of such a power-house state. They would gain very little, if anything at all, from this. On the other hand, if the EU were to side with Catalonia then they would be supporting revolution and give the wrong idea to Scotland, who has been considering succession from the EU. unfortunately, they have already showed some support for Spain, but they have not been very strong in their opinions. It would be in their best interest to look at it as an internal affair of Spain, like many others have, and simply stay out of it.
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Post by Matt Hartz on Oct 17, 2017 2:48:25 GMT
The Catalonia region of Spain has every right to succeed. They took a democratic vote which 1/3 of the population of the region participated in. Of that 1/3 of voters 90 percent said yes for independence. This is being halted by the Spanish government saying that it is illegal for them to do that. The economic and politcal standing of both countries will be greatly affected. This is because Catalonia gains 20 percent of Spain's income and 16 percent of their population. This could potentially turn Spain in to a poorer country in the world. Also, I would directly consider this a revolution quite yet. This is merely just succession and wanting to split from the country. Their has been no steps taken towards a revolution. Also with this split having potential, many other regions of countries, like Scotland and the region of Flanders in Belgium, might follow in their footsteps.
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Post by @wyatt on Oct 17, 2017 2:52:00 GMT
I believe that the EU will actually side with neither of the powers because they already have decided that this matter is "internal affairs" and that they should deal with it themselves. I think that the only way that the EU gets involved is if other EU countries support one side and some on the other side and start a European war.
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Post by Matt hartz on Oct 17, 2017 2:55:38 GMT
@meghanmiller
I feel like if the Spanish government puts a article 155 into affect, the Catalans will be very upset and will cause a revolution to start. I think this is going to happen because that region has finally put plans into motion that they have been trying to do for a long time
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Post by Matt Hartz on Oct 17, 2017 2:56:05 GMT
I believe that the EU will actually side with neither of the powers because they already have decided that this matter is "internal affairs" and that they should deal with it themselves. I think that the only way that the EU gets involved is if other EU countries support one side and some on the other side and start a European war. |
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Post by Cole on Oct 17, 2017 2:57:34 GMT
The Catalonian people were treated poorly by the Spanish forces, but if you look at it from the Spanish point of view, they did what they had to do. It says in the first article that the Spanish government has the right to go in and suspend the Catalonian government if they attempt to leave Spain, and when they felt harmed, they went in and did something about it. It’s never good to harm other people but when it comes to money, a country has to do what it has to do, and Catalonia is all money. If Catalonia were to split from Spain, all heck would break lose and there would be a spiraling downfall to Spain. First of all, the richest part of Spain is Catalonia. Their economy would go down the drain. They bring in most of Spain’s income and tax revenue from tourism and athletics. Catalonia would be sitting high upon their throne of cash, but they wouldn’t know what to do with it until they were stable. The Catalonian people will fight for their independence until they get it. They’ve been doing it for three centuries, why stop now? There will be a revolution from the Catalonian people and it’s going to be a bloody mess and Spain will keep control of them. Catalonia will not become an independent country purely due to their size. Spain will destroy them if they pull any funny business. There are 46 million people in Spain and only two million of them reside in Catalonia. In conclusion, there will be a turn in the Spanish economy and then there will be an ugly civil war in the near future.
My question for you guys: Do you think the civil war in Spain will be a technological, nuclear, biological, or traditional civil war?
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Post by Cole on Oct 17, 2017 3:05:46 GMT
@wyatt
If the E.U. gets involved, it’s going to side with the legitimate and recognized country. There’s no way that they’re going to get involved until after Catalonia is a legitimate country, and who know if that is even going to happen. Spain will handle this one by theirselves unless it gets really ugly.
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Post by Cole on Oct 17, 2017 3:15:43 GMT
@meghan
I do believe that article 155 will go into effect as soon as Catalonia attempts to leave. With this being placed in effect, the people of Catalonia are going to revolt and riot and make everything a complete and utter mess, but that is what they are fighting for and believe is the right thing to do.
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