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Post by Brooke Gentile on Oct 16, 2017 23:41:30 GMT
Catalonia like many other countries in the past is trying to gain their independence to become a strong and self governed country. Many would think that because Catalonia plays a huge role of the currency brought into Spain, that Spain would be a little concerned when they heard the news of Catalonia wanting to gain their independence. During the voting Spain’s police beat the innocent voters and dragging them out of the voting poles by their hair to prevent them from casting their vote to help Catalonia gain its independence. This approach is absolutely wrong no matter how much Catalonia supports their country, innocent people were injured for trying to voice their opinion. This was completely the wrong approach of preventing them from achieving their main goal. The Catalonians will now feel even more of a drive to break away from an oppressive government which backfires Spain’s original plan to stop the drive completely . Isn’t freedom of speech a thought that we should all have in mind when others are attempting to voice their opinions? If this split should happen I feel that at first Spain will be shocked and gio through a short period of struggling, but they will eventually figure everything out and come out if this situation perfectly fine. Catalonia on the other hand will end up thriving being that once a part of Spain it brought in most of the currency as one of the wealthiest parts involving tourism.
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Post by Jonah Foster on Oct 16, 2017 23:55:13 GMT
The Catalonia has been trying to split from Spain for the last 300 years. Many Catalans believe that Spain’s constitution is not ideal and also believe they are under an authoritarian rule. Now a slight disclaimer I do not and have never been or lived in Spain therefore I do not know the particular circumstances the Catalans are in, but in the way the National Police intervened in the polling stations was highly irrational and way out of hand. The National Police never had to use force on a peaceful vote. The police acted harshly and used a violent force that was not necessary to the events that unfolded, where they ended up injuring almost 900 Catalan citizens. Although of nearly two million civilians who actually were able to vote and were not beaten to death a large majority voted to be independent from Spain. But some are just saying there is a silent majority who do not want to leave Spain. The Catalonia split will indeed affect the economies in both countries but I do not know which one it will hurt more. Catalonia is Spain’s best economic region and it could deter their economy. On-the-other-hand the Washington Post says that since the referendum many of Catalonia’s biggest businesses are starting to move of of the region. This could definitely hurt Catalonia but they always have their beautiful tourist destinations as a fall back. Even with all the votes for independence the involvement of the National Police at the voting stations has sparked even more angry to Catalans and with Spain’s denial this could then lead to a Revolutionary War in Spain. This could end up one of two ways, bloodshed, or no bloodshed. If Spain continues to try and stop Catalonia’s advancements in independence then it could lead to bloodshed.
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Post by Jonah Foster on Oct 17, 2017 0:02:29 GMT
brooke I agree with you that the violence of the police was absolutely wrong. That is part of the reason Catalans would like to leave Spain's oppressive government, because it does just that and oppresses the Catalans. And I also agree with your point that they should be called Catalonians.
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Post by Jonah Foster on Oct 17, 2017 0:08:33 GMT
@olivia I agree the Catalans may be moving closer to war with Spain but as soon as that happens other European countries might get involved to possibly help the Catalonia government.The only reason they are not getting involved now is because it may not even have to come to war if Spain just peacefully backs off. Catalonia knows it would not be able to defeat Spain when taking up arms that is the whole reason they set the votes up in the first place.
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Post by Brooke Gentile on Oct 17, 2017 0:15:11 GMT
jonah I completely agree that the split will 100% effecf both of their economies. I feel however that it will effect Catalonia more being that they are going to be starting from a clean slate. Spain will definately struggle at first but will end up learning how to adapt to the change and loss of currency coming in.
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Post by Brooke Gentile on Oct 17, 2017 0:32:14 GMT
@laura I absolutely loved what you said about the police’s actions towards the people. If they want them to favor Spanish rule, why treat them like they are nothing in order to get what you want?They should be thinking of the saying “treat others how you would want to be treated” this is because the cruler they are to the people of Catalonia the more likely they are to want to split from them.
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Post by Wyatt Heyl on Oct 17, 2017 0:45:42 GMT
The national police had attempted to end the polls all across Catalonia as stated in the Washington Post article Catalonia independence: What you need to know the Spanish Prime Minister declared that the referendum illegal. So it gave the Catalan people plenty of leeway to not vote. However they did anyway which lead to the violent display of the national police attempting to disperse the polls. However the way that the national police handled it was unacceptable, as stated in Chaotic, violent referendum in Catalonia shows landslide support for secession from Spain, an article from the Washington Post. With the article stating “Yet the portrayal of the day’s events could not have been worse for the central government. Although Madrid might have had the Spanish constitution on its side, the images being blasted around the world showed peaceful citizens being dragged away from the ballot boxes by helmeted police dressed all in black.” Which with this kind of puts the central government in a bad spot, because with the reaction of the national police this could have swayed Catalan citizens who voted no to vote yes and support the secession from Spain.
If the split from Spain commences and is successful the Spanish economy will take a turn for the worst, for Catalonia provides 20 percent of Spain's economy and takes up 16 percent of their population. For Catalonia is one of richest areas of Spain due to Catalonia being a hotspot for tourism because of their capital Barcelona. Also for Catalonia’s economy might aswell drop because most of the company's located in Catalonia moved to Spain in preparation for the split. Now as for their social class there might be some slight conflict with Spain. Catalonia has their own language as stated in the Catalonia independence: What you need to know video, so most of the people living their wont have to adjust. Also Carles Puigdemont stated in the interview with a journalist with BBC, that every mistake taken by Spain, Catalonia becomes more and more stronger. Carles also believes that if Spain tries to seize control of the Catalan government that that will be their biggest mistake.
My Question: If the EU gets involved what would they do to settle this event, also who would the side with Catalonia or Spain?
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Post by Wyatt Heyl on Oct 17, 2017 1:05:38 GMT
@jonahfoster I believe that if there were to be bloodshed between Spain and Catalonia that the EU would step in and break it up to keep equal Librium in Europe. Plus too I think it unlikely for there to be a complete revolution in Spain, because Spain is not like say Venezuela in the way of where Catalans are not in the same situation as citizens in Venezuela. Catalans might have been at one point 300 years ago but not now.
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Post by Makayla Rieder on Oct 17, 2017 1:11:08 GMT
@olivia Girdwood I like your analogy about who can give the cold shoulder for the longest. They would just be mad at each other ad acting like they don't need the other. I agree that the way the Spanish government treated the Catalan's on voting day was unnecessary and probably made the Catalan's want independence more if this is how their national government was going to treat them.
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Post by Wyatt Heyl on Oct 17, 2017 1:12:55 GMT
@brookegentile I agree that at first Spain will struggle with the split of Catalonia because they are 20% of their economy. Except I feel like Spain will be sour about the split for a long time because of the severe loss of tourism and population as well.
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Post by Barbie Cessar on Oct 17, 2017 1:20:16 GMT
Catalonia has been making efforts to break away from Spain since 1714 when Philip V of Spain captured Barcelona. Most recently, Catalonia voted to secede and a majority of the population that did vote, voted for independence from Spain. They were warned by the Spanish Prime Minister, Mariano Rajoy, that “the vote would undermine the rule of law and set a dangerous precedent.” And as he predicted, Spanish police smashed into the voting centers shortly after voting polls were opened. If Catalonia did break away from Spain then Spain’s economy would suffer. Catalonia on the other hand might be vulnerable at first like any new nation, but financially it would be stable. Catalonia is essential to Spain’s economy because it is highly industrialized; it gains revenue from Barcelona, and attributes to twenty percent of the national economy. So it makes sense that Spain is making efforts to curve Catalonia’s behavior. My stance is that violence is never the answer. Even though Catalonia voters were warned that there would be consequences for their actions they should be able to have the freedom to vote and the freedom of speech. The police injured over 900 Catalonian citizens to demonstrate their power, but this response only temporarily postpones Catalonia’s secession. The desire for independence has been building for three centuries now. This need for change is usually what sparks a revolution. It is hard to say whether a revolution will occur because as we all know, we cannot truly classify a revolution until after it has happened. The controversy between Catalonia and Spain will not subside. If Spain does not address the situation then revolution with be the only solution for change.
I know you posed this question for Olivia but I like the route you went with it and I think it is interesting to try to see it from the riot police’s perspective. I do not think they were fed false truths or lies because Catalonian is such an important part of their Nation. I think knowing the value of Catalonia is enough motivation for the police to try to prevent them from breaking away. @meganmiller
I believe that if the EU would get involved that they would support Catalonia in gaining independence from Spain and fight alongside them. Many of these countries went through revolutions of their own to get where they are now so I would hope that they would aid other countries in doing the same. @wyatt Heyl
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Post by Barbie Cessar on Oct 17, 2017 1:21:09 GMT
Catalonia has been making efforts to break away from Spain since 1714 when Philip V of Spain captured Barcelona. Most recently, Catalonia voted to secede and a majority of the population that did vote, voted for independence from Spain. They were warned by the Spanish Prime Minister, Mariano Rajoy, that “the vote would undermine the rule of law and set a dangerous precedent.” And as he predicted, Spanish police smashed into the voting centers shortly after voting polls were opened. If Catalonia did break away from Spain then Spain’s economy would suffer. Catalonia on the other hand might be vulnerable at first like any new nation, but financially it would be stable. Catalonia is essential to Spain’s economy because it is highly industrialized; it gains revenue from Barcelona, and attributes to twenty percent of the national economy. So it makes sense that Spain is making efforts to curve Catalonia’s behavior. My stance is that violence is never the answer. Even though Catalonia voters were warned that there would be consequences for their actions they should be able to have the freedom to vote and the freedom of speech. The police injured over 900 Catalonian citizens to demonstrate their power, but this response only temporarily postpones Catalonia’s secession. The desire for independence has been building for three centuries now. This need for change is usually what sparks a revolution. It is hard to say whether a revolution will occur because as we all know, we cannot truly classify a revolution until after it has happened. The controversy between Catalonia and Spain will not subside. If Spain does not address the situation then revolution with be the only solution for change.
I know you posed this question for Olivia but I like the route you went with it and I think it is interesting to try to see it from the riot police’s perspective. I do not think they were fed false truths or lies because Catalonian is such an important part of their Nation. I think knowing the value of Catalonia is enough motivation for the police to try to prevent them from breaking away. @meganmiller
I believe that if the EU would get involved that they would support Catalonia in gaining independence from Spain and fight alongside them. Many of these countries went through revolutions of their own to get where they are now so I would hope that they would aid other countries in doing the same. @wyatt Heyl
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Post by Makayla Rieder on Oct 17, 2017 1:27:39 GMT
@wyatt Heyl Referring to your question, if the EU decided to get involved, they couldn't really do much. Considering Spain is a part of the EU, they would most likely side with them, so to help all they could really do is provide resources and support to Spain while they're fighting and/or adjusting to being without Catalonia. If they did side with Catalonia, which is not likely whatsoever, they could aid in fighting if a violent revolution were to break out, and then when the fighting is over, if they won, the EU could help them get on their feet government wise. I really don't believe that they would side with Catalonia though.
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Post by Maya Borland on Oct 17, 2017 1:44:17 GMT
A few weeks ago Catalonia ha a vote on weather the people wanted to secede. The people voted yes but the Spanish courts denied the request. Even though Catalonia has more freedom then most regions in Spain they still are looking for more. Even though the vote tally was mostly yes, to declare independence and was not finished. The regional president, Carles Puigdemont told the public that they ha the vote and that it was time to declare independence. Catalonia went in to a panic shortly after. The violence in Catalonia now shows that they are fare from having any independence. after all this has happened the Prime Minister, Mariano Rajoy said that the polls are fake due to the lake of voters and the reason that the Spanish police took people put pf the voting area. Therefore the Minister is trying to say that with these facts in had does Carles vote even exist. If it does not why does he want to be independent from Spain? Is it really the right thing to do to declare Independence from Spain. Would you want to be rolled by a government that did not share your nasality?
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Post by ricky on Oct 17, 2017 2:00:06 GMT
Catalonia's fight for independence has caused many problems across Spain. Spanish police have injured 900 Catalans and Spain's use of police to put down the peaceful vote for secession is called "the shame of Europe" by William Booth of the Washington Post. There was no need for Spain to bring their police force in to control the crowds. It is not very democratic to use violent force to put down a protest and a voted decision where 90 percent of voters wanted succession. Spain would lose a lot of their tourism attractions and revenue by losing Catalonia.The New York Times said that this situation in Catalonia is ". Spain would lose a lot of their tourism attractions and revenue by losing Catalonia. Catalonia has a population very similar to the state of Washington with around 7 million citizens and it is also very small standing only about 12,000 square miles. Catalonia has a population very similar to the state of Washington and is nearly the same size as Maryland which is small for a state let alone a country. It will be tough for such a small area like Catalonia to become an independent nation unless it starts gaining support from other countries and makes alliances. If Catalonia can join the League of Nations or even the European Union, that would help them to get support and allies to be on their own while they build a strong government and get a military. To wrap things up, it is ultimately up to Spain at the moment to make the right decision. If Spain does not grant freedom to Catalonia and the police keep using violence, there is a good chance Catalans will take arms and become violent as well. How long will it take and what will the Catalans have to do in order to get their freedom?
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