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Post by Chloe Fetter on Apr 22, 2018 15:25:14 GMT
For many decades, the conflict between Palestinians and Israelis has been extremely heated. From the First Intifada in 1987 to the Gaza War in 2008, Palestinians have been rising up against Israel in many different occasions in order to form a united Palestine in the areas where Palestinians make up the majority of the popular. Those two areas are known as the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Currently, protests in the Gaza strip have left dozens of Palestinians dead from the Israeli forces openly firing into the fence that separates the strip from Israel. The protests, labeled as the "Great March of Return" was launched by the Palestinians in order to be able to return to the home of their descendants in Israel. ~Articles for contextualization - www.vox.com/cards/israel-palestine/intro- www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna15028 -.Operation Protective Edge Articles: - www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/israel-palestine-gaza-march-of-return-protest-deaths-a8292601.html%3famp- op-ed mobile.nytimes.com/2018/04/02/opinion/gaza-protests-israel-hamas.html- www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1H60AV- YouTube State of Palestine: Drone footage captures 'Great March of Return - Ruptly Apr 7, 2018 (Drone footage of protests) ~Questions to consider... - "Palestinians call the “Great March of Return” to the homes they had in Israel 70 years ago," (Independent) Is this battle becoming outdated? The Palestinians were rooted in Israel 70 years ago. Do you think that they should just drop the battle and stay in the Gaza Strip or do you think they continue to fight in the name of respect for their ancestors? - Seeing as the fight has been going on for so long, why do the Israelis continue to withdraw the Palestinians from forming their own union? - Do you think the Hamas are behind the relatively peaceful protests that have been happening and this could be why Israel has not sacrificed their land? - Do you think the conflict will subside or increase on The Nakba?
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Post by Olivia Girdwood on Apr 24, 2018 12:38:34 GMT
The Palestinian Great March of Return is far from outdated. A conflict cannot be outdated if nothing has ever been done about it. The Palestinians just want their homes back after being kicked out 70 years ago, or at least most of them do. Who would not want to go back home? It would take a large uprising such as the march to even get the Israeli consideration of them going back home. The protest does not seem to be going anywhere though. “The sheer scale of the casualties on the first day of the protest a week ago is striking, with as many as 16 killed and 1,415 injured, of whom 758 were hit by live fire according to Gaza health officials” (Independent). These statistics of killings and injuries were all recorded in just one day. That is a major amount of injuries for a protest. The Palestinians, unless they are planning to become armed themselves sometime soon, should consider dropping the protest for the time being. They are just sitting ducks on the other side of the fence it seems; Israeli troops taking out innocent people. It can be seen that “In other footage, Palestinians are killed or wounded as they pray, walk empty-handed towards the border fence, or simply hold up a Palestinian flag. All who get within 300 yards are labelled “instigators” by the Israeli army, whose soldiers have orders to shoot them” (Independent). These people are peacefully protesting, on their side of the fence, not causing any harm to anyone, and they are being shot at and/or killed for standing up for what they believe is right. As far as the information given, the Palestinians are not armed, so I doubt they will all of a sudden all have arms. I do not believe it will get too much worse on Nakba. The Palestinians are more likely to just be more antsy, but not necessarily more violent. It is very sad when an Israeli organization has to create a group for soldiers to not shoot at the unarmed Palestians; “The free-fire policy is continuing as before and, as a result, the Israeli human rights organisation, B’Tselem, has launched a campaign called “Sorry Commander I Cannot Shoot”, which encourages soldiers to refuse to shoot unarmed civilians on the grounds that this is illegal” (Independent). This is very sad for the country of Israel that they need this program. Mentioned in the New York Times article is that countries throughout the world thought that the dispute would be solved through Israeli-Palestinian negotiations (NY Times) but the United Nations was about to take a step in before the United States told them it was unnecessary, in not so many words (NY Times).
My question is: Why would the US block the UN from intervening in the conflict before more innocent lives are lost? Is there a motive?
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Post by Brooke Gentile on Apr 26, 2018 1:19:31 GMT
The conflict over "who gets land and how its controlled"(Vox) also known as the Palestinian Great March is a conflict that is in my opinion way overdue. These conflicts date back to as far as 1948, and have not made any progress since. The Palestinians have been fighting for their rights for way too long, and at this point they need to come up with a new plan, or in my opinion just accept the fact that they will never have their land to themselves again. There comes a point in time where they need to realize that nothing they have been doing is working, and that they need to make the best of the situation. The Palestinians are not benefiting themselves, they are just harming themselves by not thinking logically about this situation. One article stated that " Palestinians are killed or wounded as they pray, walk empty-handed towards the border fence, or simply hold up a Palestinian flag. All who get within 300 yards are labelled “instigators” by the Israeli army, whose soldiers have orders to shoot them"(Independent). The Palestinians are trying to stand up for their ancestors, and what they believe in; but there has been a line crossed that should have made them realize that this was not their fight to win. While looking at the big picture however, the Israelis are not doing everything wrong. NY Times states "Israel has a right to defend itself and maintain civil order, but it also has an obligation to respect peaceful protests and not use live ammunition on unarmed demonstrators." Both groups have the right to defend what they believe in to a certain extent, however they should not be violating human rights or killing innocent people. This conflict will increase the Nakba because the Israelis will begin to retaliate more as a result of the constant push from the Palestinians.
Question: Do you think that the Israelis are in the wrong, or do you believe that both are equally at fault?
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Post by Hunter Prementine on Apr 26, 2018 4:13:31 GMT
The fight between the Palestinians and the Israelis is one that I believe will go on for a long time. Think about it, these two groups of people are so deeply rooted into their religion they are fighting over a piece of land smaller than New Jersey because both believe it is a sacred place for their respective religion. The Israelis are doing the same thing the US did to the Native Americans to the Palestinians. They are saying this is our country now here is a small portion of land to live on since we just kicked you out. As for the Great March of Return, the Palestinians should have a right to protest and not worry about being sniped for being unarmed, walking away from the security fence. The Israeli Military claimed “Nothing was carried out uncontrolled; everything was accurate and measured, and we know where every bullet landed,”(Independent) but it was deleted, possibly because there was video footage showing otherwise. Peace Now says the lethality is, “an intolerable result of a trigger-happy policy.”(NYTimes) That makes sense because the Israeli Military has a green light to shoot and “instagator” who is within 300 yards of the fence. If no one is purposely sabotaging the fence or trying to get over it, how can they be classified as an instigator? The Israelis also claim that they are protecting themselves against the Hamas but there is also video footage showing this to be false. It is pretty clear on why Israel doesn't want the Palestinians to form a union, it is because if they form a union there is a higher chance for them to rebel and retake the country. I cannot see this fight ending anytime soon unless there is significant intervention from other countries and the likelihood of that happening anymore than what the US is doing right now is low because what is there to gain from a country smaller than New Jersey?
Question: Do you think that other countries will step in on this conflict, why? (2) If a country does step in (excluding the US) what is there to gain?
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Post by Hunter Prementine on Apr 26, 2018 4:29:21 GMT
@olivia I believe the US' motive for blocking the motive is because we heavily support Israel and if the UN steps in to settle the border negotiations chances are a lot of the funding that they have put into the country would go to waste. You also have to think about how the US is one of the only nations who recognize Israel as a country and everyone else has Palestine on their maps. I believe they blocked it to be sure the money they have put into the country would not go to waste.
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Post by Barbie Cessar on Apr 27, 2018 0:52:31 GMT
The war in 1948, “Uprooted 700,000 Palestinians from their homes, creating a refugee” (Vox.com). However, this is a war that is still not resolved. I believe that this is not an outdated battle because it is still affecting the Palestinians today. According to nytimes.com, “Unemployment is more than 40 percent for the general population and nearly 60 percent for Palestinian youths.” In other words, the Palestine are still restricted to jobs which decreases their standard of living. This battle is not necessarily outdated because it has prolonged for seventy years. If anything seventy years of isolation has made the conflict more severe. Israel and Egypt are restricting the flow of goods and people which means they are not substantial food, water or health facilities. It's no wonder that the Palestinians are making protesting from frustration. If the sheer number of casualties from the first day of protests isn’t enough to fight for then the respect of their ancestors is just another motive. It also doesn't help that Trump exasperated the conflict by recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. War can not truly subside until all of these problems are compromised.
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Post by Laura Gutauskas on Apr 27, 2018 1:38:14 GMT
Giving up the fight for the royalties to a home once owned by Palestinians undermines their culture and history and shows that a border is more important to Israelis than any form of diplomacy. They should continue to protest for their right of return, not only because of the strength they hold with their ancestors, but also because, “Unemployment is more than 40 percent for the general population and nearly 60 percent for Palestinian youths,” and the blame for this could be pinned on the separation of these people and displacement from Nakba (nytimes). They also aren’t currently living in new homes, most still reside in UN refugee camps. It seems to be that Israelis want to still have control over Palestinians militarily, as well as economically. Most funds that come from outside countries, like the U.S., are handed to Israel instead of Palestine and it goes towards better weapons to fight against protesters, as well as anything else to strengthen their economy. It’s unlikely that the Hamas are involved with the protests despite having similar feelings as the rest of Palestinians do towards the injustices they face from Israel. This is mainly because the protests were peaceful and not militaristic unlike how Hamas have attacked Israel in the past, yet some Israelis still believe that those who were apart of the protests had ill intentions like Hamas, “David Keyes, rebuked CNN for even using the word ‘protest’ when ‘what actually happened is that Hamas engineered an event where they wanted thousands of people to swarm into Israel, to crush Israel, to commit acts of terror,’” although, even if this was the plan, it did not go through like this since there were zero casualties on Israel’s side (independent). Tensions are likely to stay the same as they have each year Nakba has been remembered by Palestinians, since the same type of protests have happened year after year without “clashing” as some have deceitfully described the conflict as.
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Post by Makayla Rieder on Apr 27, 2018 1:51:39 GMT
In 1948, the state of Israel was created, and chaos ensued. Palestinian people were thrown out of their homes and villages and forced to evacuate to a different country. As the Vox article states “Israeli forces defeated the Palestinian militias and Arab armies in a vicious conflict that turned 700,000 Palestinian civilians into refugees.” 700,000 people were thrown out of their homes and forced to evacuate their country because it had been taken over and the Israelis wanted the majority, and this evacuation was called the Nakba. Now, as the 70 year anniversary has approached from when these people were thrown out, they’re fighting to take it back. Mainly peacefully on the Palestinians side, these people are demanding to be given back their family villages and houses for justice to their ancestors, but Israel is refusing. This fight is quite old, but it still has purpose. They shouldn’t just give up. While I don’t think this is the right way to go about it, I don’t think that they should stop fighting for what they believe is right. This is obviously very important to them, and the Israelis obviously aren’t giving up without a fight, but they should not just give up because the fight is old. I think that the fight will definitely be most heated on the actual anniversary of the Nakba. That is when people will feel the most emotional about not being able to grow up in their families homes in former Palestine and be the angriest about their families just being thrown out because of their nationality. These people know everything that their ancestors had to go through when being thrown out of the country they grew up in, and that will only make them feel more connected to their ancestors and want to fight back as hard as they possibly can when the actual anniversary of that event happens.
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jonah
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by jonah on Apr 27, 2018 1:51:55 GMT
The fighting in the region known today as Israel and 70 years ago as Palestine has been going on for centuries. This has been a disputed land for many different religions and is recognized by the “Holy Land.” Throughout the last decade the tensions between the borders of the Gaza Strip and Israel have been the DMZ and if anyone get close to the Israel fence the soldiers have orders to shoot, especially if it threatens the integrity of the fence. According to reuters.com it says, “The military said its troops had used live fire only against people trying to sabotage the border security fence, some of them rolling burning tyres and throwing rocks, and that at least two of the dead were Hamas operatives.” If this is true the Israeli soldiers were acting in self defence and also doing their duties in protecting the border. I do not condone that they may have shot civilians acting in peaceful protest but there are sometimes a few radicals in the mix of peaceful protest. I think that the Israel Government isn’t letting Palestine organize a union because the union could be violent and revolt and try to overrun the Israel Government. I would not doubt that the Hamas could have been behind the “peaceful protests” to be a cover for possible sabotage of the border fence. According to the independent article, “Thousands of protesters returned to the border this Friday, burning great heaps of tyres to produce a black smokescreen which they hoped would hide them from Israeli snipers.” The protesters burned tires to create a cover, what were they covering up? If this was a peaceful protest the Palestinian people should have brought their picket fences and other signs protesting the fence and what the Israel government has done to oppress them. If they weren’t up to anything at all why did they create a cover to hide from snipers? Doesn’t make sense if it was a peaceful protest. I think if the Hamas do their plan of trying to invade Israel with 750,000 people then it will definitely escalate the situation.
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Post by Maddy Crighton on Apr 27, 2018 2:03:13 GMT
The conflict between the Israel and Palestine has been occurring for centuries and is outdated. These two groups have been fighting over a piece of land for way too long when there are solutions at hand. In my opinion, each group should receive an equal portion of land and should cease the violence between them. I realize that this “Great March of Return” is based off of religious views and I am not in anyway disrespecting their religion, I simply am saying that there comes a point in which a compromise must be made. How many lives will have to be taken in order for said compromise to be made? Already there have been 16 killed and 1,415 injured (Independent). I will say that Israel is partly to blame for this ongoing conflict. They are shooting innocent Palestinians who near the fence “as they pray, walk empty-handed towards the border fence, or simply hold up a Palestinian flag” (Independent). Although the Israelis have the right to defend their nation, the Palestinians are physically attacking them. A reason that this conflict may still be continuing today may be the fact that President Trump has recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel when it is a very religious holy city for many and multiple religions. However, no matter what has been done, a solution for this conflict is well overdue and needs to be settle immediately before more lives are lost and more citizens are injured.
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Post by Meghan Miller on Apr 27, 2018 2:27:07 GMT
The Israel-Palestine conflict is no where near outdated. To become outdated, there needs to be a change or closure on either side of the conflict. If each side is still passionately defending their stance of wanted more land or wanting to keep their land, then it will not become outdated in the near future. The battle will not be dropped until one side has dominated completely, this war is about identity of the peoples living in the land. The Palestinians want to be part of Palestine, prior conflicts left “Israel in control of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, two territories home to large Palestinian populations” (Vox). This large Palestinian population does not identify under the rule of Israel, and wishes to be part of their home country of Palestine. The tricky part is that they are geographically in their homes but are not ruled by their native country. These people are not fighting for the respect for their ancestors, they are fighting to take back their country and to be represented by a nation that is their own. This conflict has been going on for so long that it has become a tradition in Israel to not allow Palestinians to not from their own union. From the Israeli point of view, it makes sense not to allow the Palestinians that live in Israel to form unions. These unions could create mass movements of dissent inside the country. There is an estimated 5.05 million Palestinians in the West Bank and the Gaza strip. The amount of discontent will continue to grow for as long as peace negotiations and decisions are not met. Nakba seems to be approaching ever rapidly and will be a time of true, poignant conflict. worldpopulationreview.com/countries/palestine-population/ From this link it seems as though Palestine exists primarily in theory, since Israel still has control over the areas that are Palestine. The Palestinian government only has full control over ⅓ of their total, small piece, of land.
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Post by Ricky on Apr 27, 2018 2:48:16 GMT
The fight between Israelis and Palestinians has been going on for a long time. Recently, the Palestinians have been attempting to re-enter Israel, their original homeland. They are simply re-entering the land that belonged to their ancestors without any military or even any force at all. Israel is strongly opposed to this idea so they are acting against the Palestinians. Israelis on the border have been using violence to keep the Palestinians out. The New York Times states "Israel’s response appears to have been excessive, as human rights groups have asserted" which could pose a problem for the Israelis in the future. The Israelis have killed 16 people and injured around 1500 during the beginning of the protest. The Israeli military has been given the clear to shoot at anybody that is within 300 yards of the fence at the border no matter what they are doing. As more and more people are seeing what the Israelis are doing, the more likely people will eventually intervene to help the Palestinians. The Israelis claim to be defending themselves from the military group The Hamas who are located in Palestine. Video evidence is out that makes this claim false. It appears that Israel is doing all they can to keep the Palestinians out of their country, even if it means using force and causing thousands of casualties.
Will peace ever be made between Israel and Palestine?
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Post by Maya Borland on Apr 27, 2018 2:59:08 GMT
Ever since the Palestinians decided to try and return back to Israel, their home land please have not want them to come into their country. It has been 70 years since the palestine's have live in their Holy City. The Palestinians also known as Arabs, have been leading what they call, “ The Great March of Return.” This March is a peaceful protest to the Israelites I will not let the Arabs back in to their Holy City. The Israelites do not want the Arabs to unite and fight against them for land they believe is there. Israel is also a holy city for the Israelites as well as the Arabs people. The fight for this Holy City will not end quietly. Both sides are not willing to give up no matter how long it takes or how many lives are lost. By having the shootings at the border between the Gaza Strip and Israel is only in flaming the problem further. The United States is allied with Israel it is trying to stay out of the conflict for this has gone on for far too long and the casualties are only growing. If no one intervenes when helping keep the peace between these two countries or less will be lost in war may start. Question: death in the United States decides to intervene on behalf of Israel, will anyone stand up for the Arab people who are being attacked?
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Post by Maya French on Apr 27, 2018 3:34:54 GMT
In reading the articles, I found this quote particularly interesting; Patrick Cockburn wrote for Independent, “Thousands of protesters returned to the border this Friday, burning great heaps of tyres to produce a black smokescreen which they hoped would hide them from Israeli snipers”. This to me shows just how unevenly matched these two sides are. Here the Palestinians are using whatever resources they have as a form of protection. Just think about the length that they are going to in order to continue these protests. They are utilizing the thick, black, toxic smoke of burning tires as a form of protection against Israeli snipers. That is a true dedication and resourcefulness. These Palestinians are on the front lines, protesting for their cause while the Israelis are sniping from safer, more convenient grounds. They are not risking much or putting themselves in harms way and they also have the advantage of already owning the land being disputed over. There was also an interesting point made by The Editorial Board of The New York Times in stating, “Israel has a right to defend itself and maintain civil order, but it also has an obligation to respect peaceful protests and not use live ammunition on unarmed demonstrators.” The idea that is is Israel's “obligation” to show respect to Palestinians protesting is a point that is not stressed enough considering the fact that there have been many deaths on the Palestinian side of the conflict. The Palestinians began this with peaceful protest and, although they do have “a right to defend itself and maintain civil order” it should not be done so in this manner. Palestinians are fighting for land that was owned by their people only 70 years ago. One of the discussion questions posed asked, “Is this battle becoming outdated?” and to that I must say that, no it is not. The Palestinians still have a fire behind their cause and are quite obviously willing to stretch whatever means they have to reach their goal, while the Israelis have many high advantages over them. This conflict is likely to stay at a stalemate for some time but it is passion verses pertinacity and inevitably one will subside to the other.
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Post by Wyatt Heyl on Apr 27, 2018 3:50:58 GMT
What is happening in Gaza is terrible, with the Israeli military shooting down masses of peaceful protesters just fighting for even just a peace of Israel to call their own. In the "Protests in Gaza..." reading it talks about video footage of Israeli snipers shooting unarmed Palestinian protesters walking away from the Gaza-Israel border. In the same article it talks tries to compare the violent acts at the border between Gaza and Israel to if the Syrian army were to shoot down Syrian refugees trying to get back into Syria. It is kind of hard to compare the two mainly because the Israelis are shooting at what can be considered intruders because at the moment they are trying to invade on Israel's land, while in the hypothetical Syrian comparison it is Syria firing on its own people. Also if these events escalate could this eventually turn into a genocide of the Palestinian people? Also something that could curve this from happening is if other countries were to get involved unlike they did during the Jewish flee from Europe in the first place. What should happen is that the UN or just outside influence should get themselves involved to stop the injury rate and death tolls and to help settle the conflict all together.
Questions to consider:
If this were to escalate to becoming a genocide will measures be taken by other countries to stop it or will it be ignored such as Rwanda.
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