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Post by Barbie Cessar on Feb 23, 2018 1:02:16 GMT
If people in office speak with not filter and then say that their statements were a joke then is it okay for everyone to just how they feel without any repercussions? brooke For example if a I were to call you fat and say it was a joke would that be okay with you? |
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Post by Brooke Gentile on Feb 23, 2018 1:10:38 GMT
@babz
No, but i guess I would have to be, because that's the kind of example these men are setting. I guess if a president can do it, anyone can. But let me answer your first question, no I don't believe this kind of behavior is acceptable for a president. These remarks are very hurtful and should not be said by anyone especially by a political figure. These men are not here to hurt us, or to make us laugh, they are here to strengthen their countries and keep them safe. The people of the Philippines elected Duterte to help them become more successful, and they believed in him that he could make their lives better. They however did not elect him to be cruel towards them, and handle hard situations unprofessionally.
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Post by Maya French on Feb 23, 2018 2:27:56 GMT
President Rodrigo Duterte is a man who claims to be fighting a war on drugs, while making statements that sound as though they are influenced by drugs. According to Felipe Villamor for The New York Times, “Nearly 50 people suspected of using and selling drugs were killed by officers in the past two months, the Philippine National Police said” Phrasing is very important in this reading, both in quotes from Rodrigo and facts given by the articles. These 50 people who were killed were only “suspected of using and selling” there was no real evidence given to back these deaths. In further research I discovered the two most common drugs in the Philippines are methamphetamine hydrochloride and marijuana and that “The prevalence of drug use in the Philippines is lower than the global average, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC)” (Wiki). Rodrigo appears to simply be making a mockery of the Philippines over something that does not have as major a prevalence as he has advertised. In reading some of the questionable actions taken by the government itself through the use of police and Davao Death Squad (DDS) I began to question the possibility of a narco-state being the eventual outcome. James Griffiths wrote for CNN, ”The self-proclaimed head of the DDS, Arturo Lascanas, has also accused Duterte of overseeing the group's deadly work, saying members received money from the then-mayor in exchange for killings of not only criminals but also of Duterte's enemies in politics and the media.” If the DDS could be used to simply kill those rivaling Rodrigo, they could easily also be used to eliminate drug dealers who opposed those dealing under Rodrigo. This may be a far cry but still a possible alternative the current view of the Philippine government. As a bit of definition, it would probably be best to define a narco-state. This occurs when a country has an existing government and form of judicial rule but the importation and exportation of drugs is such a mass means of income that the government no longer implies law to drug trafficking. In some cases, issues will not be brought up within the judicial system under a fair trial but instead dealt with by the leading drug trafficking group. These such group leaders practically come to run the government through their prevalence and immunity to law. So far this appears to be the exact opposite of what Rodrigo is doing but it is always a possibility. Quote: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_drug_trade_in_the_PhilippinesWhat is your take on the possibility of a narco-state? |
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Post by Wyatt Heyl on Feb 23, 2018 2:33:25 GMT
The Philippines president has sure create a ruckus in his country. Although he has good reasoning for it. He is trying to rid his country of evil. Sure maybe his method of doing it is rather unordinary maybe even barbaric, but is this what it takes to curve behavior. That's one thing to consider is that the way he is handling the drug epidemic, is that it is curving behavior. One of the things that pops up however is in the CNN article is that it says that a few people that used to be in the hit squads is that they only didn't kill criminals and drug dealers or users, they also called political enemies of at the time Mayor. This is something that the ICC has the right to charge the President for. In the end of the main CNN article it states a good point by saying, "The ICC, intended as the world's "court of last resort," is a controversial body... it has been criticized for being overly focused on developing countries, particularly African nations" What about the NPA though, why doesn't the DDS do anything about them? Aren't they considered as criminals? Especially for the fact that they kill Filipinos, including security forces and government officials. It doesn't say anything in the other articles about the DDS conflicting with the NPA.
Discussion question: Could it be a possibility that the NPA was created by the President?
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Post by Maya French on Feb 23, 2018 2:57:44 GMT
@maddy in response to your question "So did he know about the death squad killings when he was mayor and is simply trying to continue them?" I think it is safe to assume that he knew what was happening. With how ludicrous most of his public statements have been, he seems to be the kind of person who would live with little grief over such monstrosities. Using his statements against women, as an example, he managed to degrade both women and their sexuality with one threat. He must be at least intelligent enough to see the implications of his statements and the mass danger he put thousands of women in. Rodrigo Duterte was capable of making his way to this position of power, he has shown he at least has some form of capability to foresee the implications of his actions.
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Post by Maya Borland on Feb 23, 2018 3:06:46 GMT
Before getting elected President of the Philippines, Rodrigo Duterte was mayor of Davao City. When Duterte was mayor he took charge in discarding drugs, drug dealers, and users. His election campaign sent about the same message. Duterte is very open with his hatred of drugs by killing over 12,000 people. There is no age limit to his cruelty ether. In a rade on a drugs that the police officers were sent out to do killed three teenagers. The Philippine Drug Enforcement Agency is now in charge of all drug raids and killings (New York Times). More men, women, and children have been killed since then.
This drug war could have been taken of in so many different ways. Drug users could have been sent to go through rehab treatments. The people selling the drugs could have been sentenced to jail or community survey. Any other punishment would have been more Justified than killing 12,000 people. Duterte has also been making claims on women who oppose his position on the drug wars. By this he makes rude and offencive comments in their Direction saying, “ I was angry because she was right. That's one thing. But she was so beautiful. The mayor should have been first.” Rodrigo Duterte is mocking this woman's death by turning it into a joke. He doesn't sound sad or more so that she died or how she died. For the past few years Duterte has been making comments like these all over the place then turning around and telling everyone know it's just a joke. Murder rape and drug use is not a joke. If those are all jokes how does the public know when he actually makes a true statement. Rodrigo is say that all this war is being do to,"finish the problem of my country and save the next generation" ( New York Times). How is killing 12,000 people, overlooking rape victims, and making jokes about all helping the next generation of the Philippines.
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Post by Maya French on Feb 23, 2018 3:17:26 GMT
@laurain response to your quote "This kind of behavior and abuse of power should have already been combated by the ICC and it surprises me that they don’t utilize their international power properly to prevent more deaths from occurring." I do not see how you would be shocked by this. Especially after likening the drug killing epidemic to a genocide. We have spent a large portion of the last lesson in class discussing the lack of participation on the global scale when it comes to terrifying words, such as "genocide", due to fear of the implications. It was because of this background information I was shocked by what actions were being taken on the global scale. The fact that the International Criminal Court (ICC) was already stepping in and that the CNN article made a point that they deal with "genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity and the crime of aggression" was what shocked me. It so unusual to see the term genocide be used so freely.
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Post by Cole on Feb 23, 2018 3:44:18 GMT
To start off, is there really a good way to fight the war on drugs? President Duterte’s way of controlling drugs is one of the only ways to control the drug sales. Let’s be real, if a police officer is going to try to arrest a full blown shabu (the Philippines’ form of meth) dealer, he is going to have to do a lot more than just walk up to him and tell him that he’s going to jail. Obviously the dealer does not want to lose the stash that he’s been working for and living off of for years. As said in The NY Times article, the police went on 3,253 raids and captured “high-value targets”, while killing 46 people. Now I don’t know about y’all, but I don’t think that there are over 3,000 HVTs that are all selling drugs in the Philippines. After further research, most of these raids were busts. The dealers are going to see the police and high tail it out of their lab. Now the only way to completely stop the drug flow, he would honestly have to just go out and once you found someone selling drugs, shoot them on the spot. If you want to get rid of drugs, get rid of them from their source. President Duterte’s comments about killing people and then later saying that they were just jokes is kinda crappy, but it’s his lie, he can tell it however he wants to. Even if he did kill those drug traffickers, he was making the town he was mayor of a better place. As said in the BBC article, he killed three drug traffickers. Those were three less people that parents had to worry about selling drugs to their kids. He took actions into his own hands when it came to the war about drugs and personally, I do not think he did it in the wrong way.
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Post by Ricky on Feb 23, 2018 4:03:42 GMT
"President" Duterte is a horrible man that holds the power in the Philippines. Duterte's killing squads that go and murder drug abusers throughout the country is so wild it almost seems as if it was pulled right out of a fictional movie. Imagine what a killing squad targeting drug abusers would do throughout the United States with all the celebrities and musicians that openly talk about drug use. That doesnt have too much to do with anything but that was my first thought. There are so many other ways to combat the drug problem rather than resorting to sending out killing squads. Maybe impose a very high fine to drug abusers in the country in order to discourage it and then follow up with a prison sentence after multiple offenses. When Duterte makes statements like the one about Obama's mother and then plays it of as a joke shows his cowardice as he is not able to own up to what he has said. While I am able to see the reasoning behind sending out killing squads (no i do not support them i can understand that he just wants to tackle the drug crisis in an effective way), but the comment about shooting women in the genitals is unacceptable. There needs to be a movement to remove Duterte from his position of power because he is obviously crazy and is abusing his powers.
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Post by Chloe Fetter on Feb 23, 2018 4:58:29 GMT
I'm honestly baffled as to how this man gained the title of president. This is really interesting though as I had no clue that this was happening in land so relative to the United States. The first thing that I want to say is that his approach to drug use is appalling. I think the levels of use are declining are only so because the people are fearing for their lives. However, these people do need help in a way. They may have put themselves in the position they are but not every addict wants to be there and people have the ability to transform. I believe Duterte's campaign would be much improved if he posed a solution that facilitated personal growth, openness, and honest to God compassion/care instead of ridding the people themselves. Although, I do have a couple of questions for clarification about this topic. First of all, According to the New York Times article, "The exact number of people killed since Mr. Duterte’s drug war took effect in 2017 is unknown. The government says fewer than 4,000 suspects have been killed, but Human Rights Watch last week estimated the figure at more than 12,000." I wonder why the number of how many lives have been taken during the war on drugs is so hard to track? Is Duterte hiding the true number in order to hid from the Philippine media? Also, is there a specific drug that motivates the killings or is it a broad spectrum of drug use? I think it would be interesting to ask Duterte himself this question and be able to analyze his response. In response to your second question, I do think he portrays his statements as jokes in order to avoid the public eye. I can't help but notice that Duterte's statements are strikingly similar to Trump's locker room statements on a raunchier scale and then playing it off by "saying it was just "how men talk" (BBC). Lastly, I found it comical how he deflects a relationship with Obama during his presidency "over suggestions the US president might challenge him on human rights issue" (BBC). His statement on this makes me feel as though he knows he is wrong in his actions because why would anyone including Obama or the ICC even make an appoint to sought him out if the war on drugs wasn't an extremely pressing humanitarian issue? There is some sketchy stuff going on with this dude.
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Post by Makayla Rieder on Feb 23, 2018 18:04:37 GMT
@meghan Regarding your question, No one can really be sure that this guy will ever leave the presidency because of what he’s made and done for himself to protect his status, but it’s easy to say that not every Filipino wants this man in office. The Philippines aren’t North Korea, people know that they don’t have to live with people being killed left and right and a man at their forefront who makes crude comments every 2 seconds and then pretends it was a joke. He was elected in so the next election he might be voted out, but that’s only in the unlikely event that he doesn’t put up a fight to stop the election. I wouldn’t even be surprised if this man went to the extent to have his opponents in any election killed and there wouldn’t be any consequences because he is the one who calls the shots. Generally, I don’t think that he will go down without a fight, but maybe at some point he will step down and let someone else take control, but judging by what he does now, that seems unlikely unless he dies.
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Post by Makayla Rieder on Feb 23, 2018 18:16:14 GMT
brooke I am glad that you made a connection between our President and Duterte. Obviously our presidents aren’t exactly the same, for our president isn’t publicly killing criminals, but they do seem to have the same opinions when it comes to certain things, like their treatment of women. You are especially right that they always say whatever they feel like saying and then dodge any further consequences by saying it was a joke and it was meant to be funny, when these subjects that they are speaking of are no laughing matter. People continue to let them get away with it too, and it’s sickening to see that they continue to speak without a filter and will continue to do this until someone calls them out on it and it gets enough attention for them to realize that people are going to get mad and pretty soon the error in their ways will be their downfall of power in the public eye.
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Post by Laura Gutauskas on Feb 24, 2018 2:48:24 GMT
mayafrench Although the idea of a narco-state could be a potential outcome for the Philippines, I see it as highly unlikely. This is mainly based off of the fact you mentioned that the Philippines doesn’t have as bad of a drug problem as other nations, making it unlikely that there will be an influx of drug users anytime soon with Duterte in charge. Recently, the Netherlands have been facing the worry of becoming a narco-state, although that stems from the police not being able to keep organized gangs under control. Again, it’d be unlikely this could happen in the Philippines since drug users aren’t a prominent issue in society there, only in Duterte’s mind they are.
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Post by Maya Borland on Feb 25, 2018 19:56:13 GMT
@ Barbie Cessar
I totally agree with your point that President Duterte is promoting terrible behavior. He is taking the killings way to far. My question to you though is, do you think that Mr. Duterte should be replaced and put in jail with the rest of the criminals?
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Post by Meghan Miller on Feb 25, 2018 21:53:33 GMT
@olivia Your question "Why would the country put up with this behavior and just take it?", I believe it is because they think that the drug war is worth getting rid of all drugs in their country. The Philippian people are willing to give up dignity and the country's relations to rid themselves of their 'drug problem'. They are willing to deal with Duterte if the outcome is a drug free Philippians.
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